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bacon333 |
Posted: February 19, 2008 09:50 pm
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Elite zombie Butcher Group: Old BB:S team Posts: 1507 Joined: September 15, 2006 |
Vsync limits the FPS. When you record your FPS, please don't have Vsync on as it doesn't give an accurate representation of what your computer is really capable of.
EDIT: And thanks for the stuff guys. Keep it coming. EDIT again: Make sure you max out your settings when you do the CSS stress test. Otherwise, if you give me an inacurate fps rate, and I jack up the detail in my map, you might not be able to play Brainbread: source on max. (when released, of course...) Thank you. This post has been edited by bacon333 on February 19, 2008 09:52 pm |
Andrew83 |
Posted: February 19, 2008 10:43 pm
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Just another Survivor Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: December 22, 2007 |
I have it set at 60 hz because I have no idea what that means, so thats what I left it at. Feel free to educate me though. I dunno... I ran the Lost Coast / Source stress test thing and thats the number it gave me at the end. I dont have Vsync enabled... Im guessing thats why its so high? -------------------- My Tower Of Power:
ASUS Striker Extreme Mobo - Toughpower 850W PSU - Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6800 2.93GHz - Rosewill RCX-Z3 Heatsink - 2X GeForce 8800 Ultra 768MB / SLI - 4X Corsair 2GB XMS2 RAM (8 Gigs Total) - 2X SAMSUNG LightScribe DVD Burners - 2X Western Digital 320GB Hard Drives - Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 - Vista Home Premium 64-Bit |
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Neiko |
Posted: February 20, 2008 02:08 am
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Uberzernichter Group: BB:S Team Posts: 905 Joined: January 17, 2006 |
SYSTEM INFO:
Operating system: Windows XP Pro Processor: Intel Pentium 4 CPU 3.2 Ghz Memory: 1024 MB Ram (1Gig) DISPLAY INFO: Chip Type: Geforce 7900 GS Aprox. Total memory: 256 MB Current Display mode: 1280 X 1024 (32 bit) (60 Hz) MISC INFO: Year system was bought: I think... 2003/2004 (I upgraded the graphics card and Ram though) Comfortable FPS: My comfy zone? When there isn't any noticeable fps lag, which happens to be around 20/30+ fps Average FPS in CSS Stress Test: 101 with nothing but steam. 96 with xfire, xfire plus, fraps, ventrilo, evemon, avg, and the weather channel desktop on. (all settings up as high as possible, except vsync off) -------------------- |
Luciel |
Posted: February 20, 2008 04:34 pm
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Doom Trooper Group: Moderators Posts: 1070 Joined: August 18, 2005 |
Nice system mate |
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SDWBOSS |
Posted: February 20, 2008 05:57 pm
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Elite zombie Butcher Group: Old BB:S Betatesters Posts: 1407 Joined: June 30, 2006 |
Gather ye round, children, and I will enlighten you. Ok, first of all, you either have an LCD monitor (flat) or a CRT monitor (boxy). The major difference in the way they display images is that, with a crt monitor, the image on screen flashes on and off, on and off many times a second. If you have your monitor set to 60Hz, the image will flash on and off 60 times in a second (60 images, 60 black screens). Unfortunately, this flicker is very noticeable at low refresh rates, up to about 60-70 Hz, depending on the individual. Some people even claim to be able to see this flicker all the way up to 80Hz. This can cause headaches, nausea, etc (My old CRT gave me headaches when it was beginning to break down), and even if you can't detect this flashing of the screen, your brain sure can, and everything you look at will look slightly "off", though you couldn't put your finger on what exactly. NOW THEN on to LCD - LCD images don't flash on and off, but any given pixel on the screen stays there untill a command to change comes. They are slightly slower responding than CRT monitors, and so may produce a very slight blurring effect, depending on things like response time of the monitor, which isn't important right now. So you may well be thinking, if LCD monitors don't have a refresh rate (they don't go on-off-on-off) then what difference does the refresh setting make? LCDs are made to operate optimally at a certain refresh rate, so changing it down from, say, 75Hz to 60Hz messes the timing of the internal workings very slightly, and so slows down the monitor. The moral of the story is set your desktop refresh rate to as high as your monitor allows; this will give less flicker or less blurring, depending on the screen type. VSync VSync stands for Vertical Synchronization. Bacon right - it limits the amount of frames your graphics card churns out every second. "ZOMG Why wood i limit da FPS of my gAimz?? noob" Imagine your monitor is running at, say, 1 Hz (FPS) Imagine also your graphics card is painstakingly drawing screens at 2 FPS This is fine - your graphics card makes a frame, monitor draws it, graphics card makes a frame, monitor is not ready, graphics card makes another frame, monitor draws etc. For every second your monitor draws a frame, and every second your graphics card makes two, which means that half the frames are wasted. This is ok though, because it still seems like a constant and steady 1 FPS to the user. Now imagine your brand new screen is running at 3 Hz (FPS) Now, your old card struggles out 2 FPS Your angry monitor is demanding a new frame every time it refreshes, so lets see how this works: 1) Monitor asks for the 1st frame, graphics card only has 2/3 frame done, so monitor shows blank screen 2) Monitor again asks for 1st frame, card give it the frame and draws 1/3 of next one. 3) Monitor asks for 2nd frame, card just about finishes and gives 2nd frame 4) Monitor asks for 3rd frame, card only done 2/3 of it, so monitor shows the 2nd one again. 5) Monitor asks for 3rd frame, card gives it, next one coming up 6) Monitor asks for 4th frame, card just about finishes and gives it. So in the first 6 frames of your game, you saw 3 frames of jerky, unsteady gameplay - the frames were not evenly spaced and it looked jerky. Now you know what happens whe na card can't keep up with a monitor, but what about the other way around? So, let's reverse it, the card now runs at 3 FPS and the monitor at 2 FPS. 1) Monitor asks for 1st frame, card gives it and does 1/2 the next one 2) Monitor asks for 2nd frame, card gives it the now completed 3rd frame. 3) Monitor asks for 3rd frame, too late! the card has already finished the 4th frame and 1/2 of the 5th, so monitor grabs the 4th and shows that instead. 4) Monitor asks for 4th frame, card has already finished the 5th frame and 1/2 of the 6th, so monitor shows that instead. so you see, with the card running away in front with 3fps, in the first 4 frames of the game, you see 4 frames, but they are not sequential, and so the game appears jerky even though your card is breezing through it! That's where Vsync comes in - it stop the card going any faster than the monitor, so that every time the monitor is ready for a frame, the card just about finishes it and hands it over one at a time, so that the image is smooth and avoids "tearing", which occurs sometimes when the card shoves an extra bit of a frame to the monitor each time, so that it appears a line is either quickly or slowly moving down the screen, making the whole scene look disjointed. Have a look: So, if your computer can handle it, (looks at andrew + luciel ) I'd suggest putting the refresh rate as high as your monitor allows, and turning Vsync on. Phew... Hope that's readable enough - it's hard to type with a short sleeve in 15 degrees C -------------------- |
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Andrew83 |
Posted: February 20, 2008 08:57 pm
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Just another Survivor Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: December 22, 2007 |
Gahhh!!! Math!!! Let me see if I get this then... If your computer is powerful enough to produce stable in game framrates in excess of 70 fps, then you want your monitor set at 70 hz or as high of a refresh rate as it can support? If thats the case, then you want to also enable Vsync so that your card isn't churning out more frames than your monitor can handle and causing screen tearing. So in my case and with my computer and monitor setup, I definately want to make my refresh rate as high as possible. I also probably want to enable Vsync for most games, with the exception of a game like Crysis (where its a struggle to get above 25 fps in some spots) -------------------- My Tower Of Power:
ASUS Striker Extreme Mobo - Toughpower 850W PSU - Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6800 2.93GHz - Rosewill RCX-Z3 Heatsink - 2X GeForce 8800 Ultra 768MB / SLI - 4X Corsair 2GB XMS2 RAM (8 Gigs Total) - 2X SAMSUNG LightScribe DVD Burners - 2X Western Digital 320GB Hard Drives - Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 - Vista Home Premium 64-Bit |
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mrmicky |
Posted: February 21, 2008 01:36 am
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The Pwnerer Group: BB:S Team Posts: 1397 Joined: September 15, 2006 |
If he set his Gcard to Performance instead of Quality you can get watever framerate you want like i play wow with 120+ FR when its default capped to 75/76.
-------------------- Lightsaver the energy efficient Lightsabre |
bacon333 |
Posted: February 21, 2008 02:33 am
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Elite zombie Butcher Group: Old BB:S team Posts: 1507 Joined: September 15, 2006 |
Vsync is to prevent tearing, that's all it is used for. Syncs with the monitor's refresh rate. However, when you test and put up your specs in this thread, please don't have Vsync on as it won't have an accurate representation of what your video card is capable of churning out.
Thank you. |
Luciel |
Posted: February 21, 2008 10:46 am
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Doom Trooper Group: Moderators Posts: 1070 Joined: August 18, 2005 |
What the... I played crysis all on max through the whole game without a single lag bit, and your system is better than mine and you had lag at a point? something´s not right there. Oh and SDW, awesome explanation, i couldn´t have written it better myself! |
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Neiko |
Posted: February 21, 2008 01:49 pm
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Uberzernichter Group: BB:S Team Posts: 905 Joined: January 17, 2006 |
Isn't vsync for older monitors? I was always told that LCD monitors didn't need vsync.
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Andrew83 |
Posted: February 21, 2008 03:49 pm
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Just another Survivor Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: December 22, 2007 |
I think you're right, Im not getting the performance I expected to be getting when I built my system. I think part of it has to do with my FSB not being timed correctly with my memory. I was told it has something to do with the speed and the multiplier and running it unlinked... I need to read up on how to do that. If anybody is knowledgable in that feel free to educate me there as well. Yeah, I played Crysis (64-bit) with everything at least on high, with textures, shaders, and a few other things on very high, 1280 x 1024 resolution, no AA, and was getting at between 25-30 fps in large open areas choppy sometimes when a lot starts happening on screen, but playable. As soon as the island got frozen, I watched my fps drop to 6. I had to drop everything to the lowest settings to get my framerate back between 25-30. Everything looks like ass now. It totally ruins the experience you had while you playing the first half of the game. -------------------- My Tower Of Power:
ASUS Striker Extreme Mobo - Toughpower 850W PSU - Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6800 2.93GHz - Rosewill RCX-Z3 Heatsink - 2X GeForce 8800 Ultra 768MB / SLI - 4X Corsair 2GB XMS2 RAM (8 Gigs Total) - 2X SAMSUNG LightScribe DVD Burners - 2X Western Digital 320GB Hard Drives - Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 - Vista Home Premium 64-Bit |
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SDWBOSS |
Posted: February 21, 2008 05:28 pm
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Elite zombie Butcher Group: Old BB:S Betatesters Posts: 1407 Joined: June 30, 2006 |
Vsync is definately not just for older monitors, although you are right in that it is much more noticeable on the older CRT monitors, because they have less pixel blur, so the line is more visible and clear-cut.
Andrew, you've hit the nail on the head there - on such an amazing system as yours, you want Vsync on unless there is some reason for not doing so, and you want your refresh rate as high as possible (don't set it higher than your monitor can display, although you should be safer with LCDs. My CRT blew up when I set it to 75 Hz.)
Oh yes I forgot - when you test you want vsync off, as well as any sorft of FPS limiter you may have, because then you get the max your card is capable of. you can turn it back on after testing of course
Well that's fine, but I guarantee you will not see a difference between 50-60+ fps. Also, if you read the part where the card is going faster than the monitor in my post, you can see that you are actually getting slightly more choppy gameplay, rather than at the "default" 75fps. You can probably turn VSync on and turn the graphical goodies up if you are getting about 120 fps! I have Crysis, though I've not played that much, but I've got up to where you fight some tanks, and I've never noticed any serious lag - some blips when loading textures, due to my slow hard drive (though it's brand new) but nothign serious. Could just be a display driver problem, if you haven't already found a cause. -------------------- |
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bacon333 |
Posted: February 21, 2008 06:29 pm
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Elite zombie Butcher Group: Old BB:S team Posts: 1507 Joined: September 15, 2006 |
Arg, system specs!11
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Andrew83 |
Posted: February 21, 2008 07:21 pm
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Just another Survivor Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: December 22, 2007 |
I think we've commandeered bacons thread here. Sorry buddy. Should we start a "monitor performance" thread maybe?
-------------------- My Tower Of Power:
ASUS Striker Extreme Mobo - Toughpower 850W PSU - Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6800 2.93GHz - Rosewill RCX-Z3 Heatsink - 2X GeForce 8800 Ultra 768MB / SLI - 4X Corsair 2GB XMS2 RAM (8 Gigs Total) - 2X SAMSUNG LightScribe DVD Burners - 2X Western Digital 320GB Hard Drives - Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 - Vista Home Premium 64-Bit |
SDWBOSS |
Posted: February 21, 2008 09:04 pm
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Elite zombie Butcher Group: Old BB:S Betatesters Posts: 1407 Joined: June 30, 2006 |
Well if you know the components of a person's system, then surely you know roughly what it is optimally capable of? *idea*
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